Posts by Steve Lowry

34

Throwing the baby out with the bath water?

by Steve Lowry in

jw
friends

sometimes i think that because we jws were so deceived, tricked and flat out lied to by an organization that claims to be the sole representative of god, when we take the step to leave the group we (may) have a tendency to discard god as well, in the process.

i realize also there are those who by their nature (perhaps) and their point of view and ideology, that its just a natural personal kind of evolution that brings them to the point that god doesnt exist.

or, that if he does, it doesnt really play any kind of a roll in their lives.

Steve Lowry

First of all I want to thank everyone for their response to the thread.

Now as for the metaphor (baby/bath water), I realize its an over simplification (I certainly didn’t intend any offense). I was intentionally careful to make it a question and not a comment. That said, I have spoken with many former JW’s over several years time who have abandoned their belief in God. It’s quite a coincidence. It naturally (for me anyway) makes one ponder the mental processes involved that helps a person to develop such a contrasting perspective from when they were God believing individuals. Considering the mind control the Watchtower Society has over the JW, and how it creates such an all or nothing paradigm, is seems to me at least possible that an individual may be set-up for a total discard of all or most of the cardinal beliefs associated with this particular religion, upon renouncing it. With God being the center of that belief system, I don’t see it as a leap of logic that some could renounce their belief in God as well. I also realize that everyone is an individual and I do not presume that everyone who leaves the Watchtower Society and no longer believes in God, dose so because of any ‘formula’. That would be silly to see it that way.

I myself am on a continual spiritual evolution and I’m not sure exactly where it will take me. As for my belief in God, I simply cannot deny it. To do so would not be true to who I am, anymore than it would be for someone who doesn’t believe, to pretend they do. I’m neither proud of my belief in God or am I embarrassed by it.

Finally, I respect other’s beliefs (especially my former JW friends) whether it parallels mine or not, and I do not in any way mean to diminish what others believe in (or what they don’t believe in). I simply wonder about the long reaches and ripple effects of a destructive power and force of a cult such as the Watchtower Society.

Any and all comments are welcome. If I have said anything offensive to anyone here on this forum, please accept my apology. I’m simply exploring all avenues.

Steve . . .

34

Throwing the baby out with the bath water?

by Steve Lowry in

jw
friends

sometimes i think that because we jws were so deceived, tricked and flat out lied to by an organization that claims to be the sole representative of god, when we take the step to leave the group we (may) have a tendency to discard god as well, in the process.

i realize also there are those who by their nature (perhaps) and their point of view and ideology, that its just a natural personal kind of evolution that brings them to the point that god doesnt exist.

or, that if he does, it doesnt really play any kind of a roll in their lives.

Steve Lowry

Sometimes I think that because we JW’s were so deceived, tricked and flat out lied to by an organization that claims to be the sole representative of God, when we take the step to leave the group we (may) have a tendency to discard God as well, in the process. I realize also there are those who by their nature (perhaps) and their point of view and ideology, that it’s just a natural personal kind of evolution that brings them to the point that God doesn’t exist. Or, that if He does, it doesn’t really play any kind of a roll in their lives.

But for those who wanted to believe there is a God, has the Watchtower corrupted this ideal to the point that the some former JW’s simply ‘can’t’ believe anymore?

(I know that for me, I have become very analytical. (And hey, I like that.) I do still believe in God, but nobody and I mean nobody is gonna pull the ‘wool over my eyes’ again. Sometimes, I think the Bible was created to keep the masses ‘in line’. Maybe we needed a ‘Bible’ with rules and regulations to help us learn to be socially responsible to our fellow man as we evolved as a people. In that way, there is an abundance of wisdom and direction in the Bible. But is it really the hand of God who wrote it? I dunno.)

My belief in God is real, and I can’t deny that fact.

Steve . . .

11

JW's 'acting badly'.

by Steve Lowry in

jw
friends

the worst experience i think i ever had with jws acting badly was one time when a good friend of mine (a former jw like myself) tom, had a jw cousin in the hospital due to a very bad car accident.

his cousin (a woman in her late thirties) had suffered severe head trauma and it was not known at that time if she would recover.

practically all of toms immediate and extended family was jws.

Steve Lowry

I guess I'm not the only one who can't sleep (Smile).

Ya know, I'm quite sure they felt justified by their actions (since the Watchtower Society is so willing to help JW's justify their bad behavior), but I wish they could see how they look from my perspective. Even better, I would like to show a person who may be interested in becoming a JW, this type of behavior. This is the kinda stuff people don't get to see at the door. When I experience crap like this with a JW, it’s a good reminder of why I left in the first place.

Steve . . .

14

Do you still 'hear the tapes' of the Watchtower Society?

by Steve Lowry in

jw
friends

ya know whatta i mean?

when you sneeze and someone says "god bless you" do you hear any old tapes in your head about how thats pagan?

at christmas time do you feel any guilt about enjoying the songs?

Steve Lowry

Ya know whatta I mean? When you sneeze and someone says "God bless you" do you hear any ‘old tapes’ in your head about how that’s ‘pagan’? At Christmas time do you feel any guilt about enjoying the songs? Can you hum them without feeling guilty? Can you sing God Bless America at a sporting event without thinking somehow you’re doing something evil or wrong? If your church has Easter Bunny hunt, dose that offend you? Can you go to church without feeling guilty about it? Do you think somewhere down deep in your core, that maybe the Society is right after all, and God has really turned His back on you? Do you still hold onto any JW "theology’s"? Do you have a hard time with the Trinity concept? With Hell? With Heaven? If you or a loved one needed a blood transfusion would you hesitate? If you did receive a blood transfusion do you think you might worry (to any degree) that by doing so you would have completely separated yourself from God? If a JW shuns you, do you feel on some level they may somehow justified by doing so? Do you feel strange when accepting the emblems? Do you have any impending doom feelings concerning Armageddon and that you will be destroyed?

I don’t mean to make an annoying list here. I’m curious about the long-term effects of the mind control that a cult like the Watchtower Society can have on people. I know that, once being a JW myself, I personally had to go/grow through some of aforementioned topics. Sometimes I still ‘hear the tapes’, but mostly it just kinda makes me giggle now when I do.

When my daughter was born in 1995, she needed two blood transfusions to survive. When I was told she needed them, I immediately ‘heard the tapes’ roll in my head, but that only lasted for about a split second. Obviously I did what any responsible parent should do. Today she is a healthy happy little seven-year-old!

Steve . . .

11

JW's 'acting badly'.

by Steve Lowry in

jw
friends

the worst experience i think i ever had with jws acting badly was one time when a good friend of mine (a former jw like myself) tom, had a jw cousin in the hospital due to a very bad car accident.

his cousin (a woman in her late thirties) had suffered severe head trauma and it was not known at that time if she would recover.

practically all of toms immediate and extended family was jws.

Steve Lowry

The worst experience I think I ever had with JW’s ‘acting badly’ was one time when a good friend of mine (a former JW like myself) Tom, had a JW cousin in the hospital due to a very bad car accident. His cousin (a woman in her late thirties) had suffered severe head trauma and it was not known at that time if she would recover. Practically all of Tom’s immediate and extended family was JW’s. The hospital was one of my business accounts and I told him the next time I was there (which was practically daily) I would visit the family and offer any support I could. My friend was pretty tore up about the whole thing and thanked me for my concern.

When I visited the family in the waiting room a couple of days later, I told them I was a friend of Tommy’s and if there was anything I could do for them, I would be glad to. They were JW’s of course and didn’t know I had once been one myself. But that didn’t really matter, to me anyway. I just wanted to offer any help I could. At first the parents were very receptive and appreciative, but soon I started to notice that JW "look" of suspicion from the father. The father asked me how I knew Tommy, and I had to think fast as I had actually met Tom at a former JW get together. So I said I knew Tommy from church. (Uh, not to bright!) Well, the parents thought Tom had sent someone to the hospital from "Babylon The Great" to try and "witness" to the family during their time of crisis. My friend said when he got home that night the phone never stopped ringing. Every JW in his entire family (just about), called to complain and bitch about my visit. How dare Tom send someone from a "church" to visit his JW family! My friend got so pissed that he stopped talking to all of them. The whole thing caused a serious rift in a family that was already doomed, due to the Watchtower Society’s crap. I felt like shit (sorry) and regretted ever going to the hospital. Tom wouldn’t admit to it, but I know he felt some resentment towards me cuz of all the crap my visit started. I was made to feel like a total ass, all because I stopped by to offer some emotional support to a friend’s family in a hospital. Unbelievable.

God help me if I ever get so suspicious that I can’t see the genuine care and concern from somebody else just because they don’t ‘fit’ my ideology.

Steve . . .

39

Are There Things You Didn't Understand About JW's Until AFTER Baptism?

by minimus in

jw
friends

one of the things the society prides itself over is that jw's are not only preachers but also teachers.

jw's are told that they have the "best education in the world".

jw's are taught for a number of months before they are allowed to get baptized.

Steve Lowry

"So, what makes the Witnesses so attractive to people???"

Ya know this really is an excellent question and should probably be a new subject.

I believe the reasons are many that help to draw a person into such a religious group. But simply (IMO), there are times in a person’s life (has been in mine) where people need help and understanding. Problem is, they don’t know where to find it. Then someone shows up at his or her door with all the ‘answers’. They’re promised a better life. They’re shown the way to join with others who also have found this better life. Its presented to the interested one that all they have to do is join (with the ones presenting the ‘truth’) and everything will be all right.

You can’t sell a lie very easily, so the Watchtower has been very careful to contain its agenda deep below the surface. Only very superficial "truths" are presented at first. Then as the indoctrination process begins and continues, more "truths" are presented and explained. It becomes a circular logic type of reasoning; "I know it’s the truth cuz I believe it. And I believe it cuz I know it’s the truth". There’s a push (albeit inferred) to deepen relationships within the group and create distance with ‘outside’ relationships. This provides the ‘need’ for the group that later on is used as a tool to keep the new JW ‘in line’. There is ‘reward’ for ‘good’ behavior , which provides positive reinforcement. This goes on and on until the new recruit is totally mentally dependent on the group. By then, its too late.

For those who are ‘born’ a JW or who have been ‘brought’ in at a very early age, they just simply "know" it’s the truth. Children look to their parents as gods and if they are told by them something good and true, then there is even a ‘checks and balances’ mental process within the psyche of the child. It’s just the way it is, to the child. What other way COULD there be? I personally had to go/grow through this type of ‘indoctrination’. It took me until my early twenties to finally figure it out on my own.

But all this isn’t possible without the need for help and the offer to comply.

For those who aren’t hurting and still find the JW religion interesting, well, maybe they need the kind of structure in their lives the Watchtower Society provides. Some people need to be told what to do, think, say, etc.

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts on this subject.

Steve

33

I Don't Hate JW's. I Just Think They're Wrong

by minimus in

jw
friends

every so often, i'll read on the board how some just hate jw's.

whether it's the individuals or the organization, some vehemently abhor everything connected to jehovah's witnesses.

i do not personally hate anyone.

Steve Lowry

Yeah, with all the "New Light" that keeps coming outta the Watchtower, the list should at least stay fresh! . . lol!

Steve

33

I Don't Hate JW's. I Just Think They're Wrong

by minimus in

jw
friends

every so often, i'll read on the board how some just hate jw's.

whether it's the individuals or the organization, some vehemently abhor everything connected to jehovah's witnesses.

i do not personally hate anyone.

Steve Lowry

Yeah, I've even thought about going behind the JW's in a niegborhood with a disclaimer kind of a document that explains what a person can really expect joining the Watchtower Society, that the JW kindly forgot to mention while aqt the door. But life's to short for dat . . .

Steve

39

Are There Things You Didn't Understand About JW's Until AFTER Baptism?

by minimus in

jw
friends

one of the things the society prides itself over is that jw's are not only preachers but also teachers.

jw's are told that they have the "best education in the world".

jw's are taught for a number of months before they are allowed to get baptized.

Steve Lowry

What I have learned after the fact, as it were, is that the JW baptism means nothing. Its all about the set-up by the Watchtower Society to make you 'official' so they can use all their scare tactics on ya to make you obey. They make you feel like a second class citizen (can't comment at meetings, etc.) till' you get 'dunked'. Getting baptized as a JW is like selling your soul to the devil. When you do this, the devil (Society) owns ya. I think that’s why it feels so good to come to the awareness of the meaninglessness of the JW baptism. It’s kinda like tearing up that contract with the devil.

If all JW's could come to this realization about the Watchtower Society that folks like us here on this board have come to, would there enough JW's left to have a meeting? LOL

Steve

30

To Jehovah's Witnesses, Jehovah and Satan Are EQUAL

by minimus in

jw
friends

jw's always say that we better watch out because satan the devil is always looking at us to try to devour us.

we are told not to get involved with anything that is against god's will because satan is constantly looking at us to trick us into serving him.

satan is so powerful that he influences billions of people.

Steve Lowry

Yeah Hamas, it seems the older I get, the more 'Option C' appeals to me.

Steve